| Subject:
lots of good advice as Gary Hirsch and Tony Krauss start to restore
W1321 and W276 ----- Original Message ---- From: Gary Hirsch <ghirsch@sbcglobal.net> To: Richard Harrington <rmharrington@sbcglobal.net> Sent: Tuesday, October 23, 2007 10:03:59 PM Subject: Beefing up a woodie Wayfarer Dick,
I have my boat in the garage now and am getting serious about getting her fitted out properly. Jiffy reefing, cockpit mainsheet, adjustable outhaul, boom vang improvements, new gaskets on buoyancy tanks, foredeck improvements, etc.
My question relates to getting the hull epoxied. I plan to turn her over and do some work to the bottom. In one email, Uncle Al suggested putting fiberglass strips along the chines and fair them in. I thought I would take her down to bare wood and epoxy the entire hull. Do you recommend adding a layer of cloth fabric or just a few coats of epoxy? If you use cloth, does it take a lot of fairing compound to hide the fabric from showing through the final paint job?
As I contemplate the best way to seal her up a bit, I would appreciate your wisdom.
Gary Hirsch (W1321) -----
Original Message -----
From:
Richard Harrington
Cc: Tom Erickson ; Dave Hansman ; Charles Jordan ;
Tony Krauss ; Frank Pedersen ; Jim Phoenix ; Brian Ritchie ; Don
Schaffner ; Al Schonborn ; Earl Schnur W1028 ; Kit Wallace
Sent: Wednesday, October 24, 2007 11:27 PM
Greetings,
Gary:
I've
added to the 'cc' eleven woody owners that I can think of at
the moment. The only important person not included is Hans
Gottschling who is very knowledgeable but never answers his
email. You will have to phone him (check with Uncle Al
for his number). I know that I've
probably overlooked at least one or two other woody
owners. Those of you on the 'cc' are cordially invited to
respond to this request by Gary Hirsch.
As
a mater of information to everyone let me inform you that we have two
people, Gary Hirsch and Tony Krauss who are currently refurbishing old
woodies, plus a third, Frank Pedersen, who is finishing up a kit
previously started by someone else. Both Tony and Frank reside in
the Chesapeake area while Gary lives in Michigan.
Now
I must confess, Gary, you are probably going to get variety
of opinions. Don't let that bother you--the more information
regarding people's experiences the better for you to decide. Your
goal should be to do the best job you can within the limits of your
time and abilities, knowing fully that there probably is no way you can
do the "perfect" job.
Discussing
how best to beef up an old woody is a large topic. So for a start
I'm only going to address your first question regarding applying
fiberglass tape at the chines. Also, to say I
strongly recommend doing something about the CB trunk setting and that
you should consider filleting extensively all frames, stringers,
etc. on the inside. You should also be aware
that the deck joints will become a problem area, the deck
being fastened down only with bronze boat nails.
Regarding
the chines. I think Al may have mentioned to you that David
Hansmen extracted all the original brass screws and replaced them with
SS which he set in epoxy. When I refurbished my boat all I
did was tighten all the screws and then fill the heads with the low
density epoxy filler. I haven't encountered any problems but
if I were doing the job today I would likely do as Dave did. It
is a little extra work but good insurance. Applying glass tape on
the outside along the chines will certainly add strength, but I
agree with you about the concerned of trying to fair
everything out smooth to look good. Current techniques for
plywood boat construction often call for applying an outside abrasion
layer of cloth, but I think this is a different type of cloth and it is
applied uniformly on the whole surface of the hull. Without
further knowledge from others I would be inclined to rely upon the
filleting on the inside of the hull for strength and fore go the
tape. Hans may be able to shed more light upon this topic.
You
need a good barrier of epoxy on the outside so you should roll on at
least four coats of epoxy. If you plan the process properly this
can be done all in one step, thus avoiding having to scrub off the
blush between coats. You will need to do some sanding to get a
smooth finish.
I strongly
recommend obtaining the West System manuals for wooden boat restoration
and construction as well as subscribing to Wooden
Boat magazine. You really need to have a handle on the
current techniques and technology regarding using epoxy.
Best
wishes............DICK
-----
Original Message -----
From:
DSchaff223@aol.com
Sent: Thursday, October 25, 2007 9:48 AM
I've restored several wood boats but only one Wayfarer
(#613). Thought should be given as to glassing wood boats with West
System. If you try to seal the complete boat with the west System,
you'll still get a few spots where water will soak into the wood. Once
it gets in, it'll swell and it can't get back out. You'll trap in the
water and it'll rot. Use standard paint or varnish on one side of the
wood so that drying can occur. Just my thoughts.
My woody (W613) was like new when I restored her so
strength was not a real concern but I did add epoxy fillets on each
stringer. They have held up fine.
With each on my wood boats I put a handful of salt (the pet store carries ocean salt for fish tanks) in the bottom of the boat. The rain water dissolves the salt and the wood won't rot (at least it hasn't yet). It's fresh water that causes rot. Since I live in So. CA, we don't get much rain so rot is not a big concern here. I worry about fire. Don Schaffner W613  PS: I have my nice wood Wayfarer in dry storage at this lake
in my town in So. CA. I've considered sinking her in shallow water
until it's over.
-----
Original Message -----
From: "Jim Phoenix"
Sent: Thursday, October 25, 2007 12:59 AM
There's an excellent case to be made for not epoxying or glassing at all, just tighten up any loose bits and fair them in with low-density filler. You won't have any problems with that. Downside to epoxy and fiberglass is the added weight - lighter the better in my opinion. 8017, my recent refinish job, had just the plain wood hull, only ten years old, but is in excellent condition, no glass, epoxy - just paint... and didn't leak a drop. My 2¢ worth. Jim www.jimphoenix.com When I
restored W1037 I stripped the paint down to bare wood and epoxied the
outer hull, without much consideration for the state of the original
fixings. If I was to do the job again, I would certainly recommend
epoxying in the screws as Dave Hansman has done. What I found is that 3
or 4 years later, some of the screw head filler, particularly in the
bow area which takes the brunt of pounding wave action, was showing
through the paint finish. I think Hans
Gottschling (hansg@gottschlingboatcovers.com,
phone 905-277-3306) )would certainly recommend paying attention to the
centerboard case. He typically removes the entire case to re-seal it
and check for rot. I didn’t in my restoration, thinking the outer
coating of epoxy would cure any leaking at the centerboard case/keel.
For the first two years this worked, but sure enough, water started
finding its way in at the joint between the case and the hog after the
stresses of the centerboard on the case caused the joints to start
opening. I solved this problem, with some difficulty, from within the
1” wide centerboard slot, by routing out a groove on each side of the
case where the plywood bottom panel is sandwiched between the hog and
keel. This groove was then filled with thickened epoxy and covered with
a layer of glass tape. So far the repair has held up well. With respect
to reinforcing the chines with glass tape – I wouldn’t do it, unless
the boat is going to be beached a lot, or is showing signs of rot at
the chine. I did this once to another cottage dinghy I own, recessing
the thickness of the tape and epoxy into the plywood core. It’s a hell
of a lot of work to do it properly, and the resultant taped joint is
never totally invisible or as sharp edged as the original wood. Regards,
-----
Original Message -----
From:
Richard Harrington
Sent: Thursday, October 25, 2007 11:20 PM
GARY,
With regard to the CB trunk, I did essentially the
same as Kit did inside the slot. However, on the advice of a
guy who had worked on several Fireballs, I glassed over
the inside as well. I put large fillets at all the sharp
corners then ran three layers of glass tape (starting with a
narrow tape and increasing the width with each successive
layer) from near the top of the CB case hogs down over the
keelson and onto the bottom panels. This made the whole assembly
very rigid so that there hasn't been any flexing that could
break the glass seal on the inside.
One mistake I made was getting the inside of the CB
slot too tight. (I had also reinforced the CB itself which
made it thicker.) It took a lot of work filing the inside
of the slot before the board no longer wanted to jam. Also,
the fiberglass inside the slot creates a small lip which is a favorite
place for sand and pebbles to lodge.
DICK
|